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Breaking news: MS Mobiles reports a fix for the TyTN II may be available as soon as next week. Read more...

Breaking news: All About Phones also confirms update is coming. Read more...

Responses from HTC

HTC support personnel has so far given several different responses. For legal reasons we cannot post transcripts of e-mail or phone conversations here, but we can summarize them for you. Obviously, the headings are not literal.

It is important to note that these phone and e-mail conversations were held with support personnel, and if you have ever worked at a support line, you will know that these people are not always up to speed on all issues, and may not have any technical knowledge whatsoever.

Ofcourse, the actual engineers and technicians working on these devices at HTC are very likely to know about these issues. You don't simply forget to add drivers to a platform.

The following responses are fairly mixed in time frame, one HTC support person would say they never heard of it before, while another would claim they heard many times before but need more reports. This is probably related to having several support departments in different countries.

"We have never heard of this issue before"

This response was the standard reply to those contacting HTC about these issues until a month or so ago. Luckily, this response is seldom heard of late.

"We are aware of the issue, no patches planned"

Many have gotten this response, though this one also seems to be decreasing in frequency, in favor of the next one.

"We are aware of the issue, but need more reports for escalation"

This seems to be the most common response at this moment. The support personnel seems to be getting up to speed with this issue. To get it through the support hierarchy they need many more reports though. This is why everyone reading this should contact HTC and their providers (if using a branded model), and report the issue.

"We are aware of the issue, and it might be fixed in February"

This is a response we have so far only heard of about four times. Apparently, HTC will be releasing a ROM update for at least the TyTN II in February. It is however not clear if this update will include new video drivers or not, the support personnel who hinted at the update themselves were not sure of this. One of them outright said it wouldn't.

New responses from January 17, 2008

"We undestand your concern, please provide us with more information"

Suddenly, not 24 hours after this site was launched (and links sent to HTC) and only mere hours after our first press coverage (Tweakers.net (Dutch)) this new response from HTC surfaces, asking for more details (on the video playback issue only). Coincidence? We think not. The weird thing is, while some people have gotten that response by e-mail, at the same time, some others are still getting the "we don't know what you're talking about" response.

This response includes a form to fill out about your video playback experience. This form includes questions about your name, mobile number, IMEI, P/N, S/N, ROM version, program used, file size, file format / encoding, resolution, and video scaling. We would like to point out that it would be best if you provide your experience with either Windows Media Player (the mobile version) or the HTC Video Player (not included on most devices), as otherwise they will be tempted to say it's an issue with the 3rd party player.

For some tips on things you could tell HTC (and your provider's) support to further our cause, please see our What to tell HTC page. Just asking for drivers will probably not help.

Again, this response deals only with video playback, not with the problems with games, the touchscreen or the camera.

"We are working on a fix, fast"

One HTC support employee has stated that an internal e-mail has just gone around saying they are sorry about the issues (apologies seem to be getting more frequent in their replies) and a fix is forthcoming fast, so watch the HTC e-Club. Apparently he also let the February ROM update slip again. He also let slip the update will likely come with WM 6.1 - which would be awesome. He still requested more reports and videos, though. In the meantime, some other people have again let us know that they are still getting the "no patches planned" response.

Could it be we are having the desired effect? We can only hope. Now if only HTC would release an official statement, we could all 'go home'! We have not interpreted this as the final word (yet), as so far this seems to be an isolated response.

New responses from January 20, 2008

"Update within a week"

It so far seems to be an isolated response, but one person has reported HTC support told them there would be an update within a week.

"Update on the 28th"

Again an isolated response with only report, one HTC support worker has said the update will be available on January 28.

"Guarantee of a fix"

As you would expect by now, again this is only a single report, where one HTC support employee has stated he guarantees HTC is working on a fix for the video issues. There are no further details on if the video playback is concerned or the complete set of video drivers.

New responses from January 22, 2008

"Widespread problem", "known and being addressed"

Several new responses from HTC support have stated "This is issue is known by HTC and is being addressed by HTC in Taiwan" and "we can assure you this is being addressed at the highest level as this is a widespread problem" and similar other wordings.

Seems a bit more hopeful for us than the previous ones stating it was being investigated.

"Fixed before april"

One of our readers who is a heavy business users has contacted both AT&T and HTC telling them his intent to return his 300 Tilts and take his business elsewhere. He reports he ultimately got a response from one of HTC USA's Vice Presidents who stated "we are working on a fix and believe it will be ready for release sometime before april".

It seems like you need to be a really heavy user with a good threat to get to a VP, but this guy did, and it's a very interesting response at that. Note that we do know exactly which Vice President of HTC USA it was, and this response is from before the now infamous statement.

"Cut costs"

A reader has informed us that after complaining to HTC support today about the slow video issues, the HTC employee actually answered with "the reason your TyTN II is slower for video than your MDA is because the TyTN II does not have video acceleration". After some more nudging, he sneaked in: "So what you are telling me is that HTC, in an effort to cut costs, sold me a device that's worse in some things from a device that's 3 years older?" to which a "That is correct" reply followed.

It's hard to not have a laugh when reading this one, at least we think so. Either way, they pretty much admit they cut corners here. Not admit like you can use in court, but still not insignificant. This response was made by HTC support after their official statement.

"All it needs is a software fix"

Yet another reader got HTC support to actually confirm that a) the ATi Imageon hardware is there, b) it is not disabled, and c) all it needs is a software update. As promised on the front page, here is that reader's own transcript:

After just reading the recent updates from the 22nd I decided to call HTC (at 2:49 Central) again regarding if they released an official response and if they could confirm that the Kaiser uses ATI's Imageon video acceleration hardware. Here's what i found out.

The man i talked to at support asked what device I had and I said the Tilt. He was able to confirm they did not release an official statement about an update. He said it would appear on their site. I then asked if he could confirm some hardware specs in my device and he said yes. I asked him if the Qualcomm MSM7x00 chips have ATI's Imageon video acceleration hardware and that it's not disabled. He said that was too techinical, so i asked if he could ask someone else and find out. He put me on hold was able to confirm it does have the ATI's Imageon video acceleration hardware and it's not disabled. He said all it needs is a software fix because it would not make sense to say they could fix it if it did not have the hardware.

I made sure that three points were the ATI's Imageon video acceleration hardware is there, secondly its not disabled, and finally that all it needs is a software fix. He said yes to all three. So that's what i found, not sure how useful it is but I am sure you will. Thanks again for all the effort.

And thank you for the heads up! As to usefulness, well it isn't an official statement, but it's nevertheless good to know. Seeing as the first person you talked to actually got somebody more knowledgeable about these things to answer you directly, it's certainly not insignificant.

New responses from January 23, 2008

"R&D still looking at it"

One reader has sent us word that he contacted HTC support and at first got their new statement as response. After asking for clarification, this is what he got back from them:

Unfortunately I cannot answer these questions, and we will not have these answers until the devices have been tested and the exact cause of the problem has been identified by our Research and Development department, and this testing is ongoing at the moment.

As I said previously, this is being addressed at the highest level, and as soon as there is a resolution via an update or similar, the details will be available on our website www.htc.com.

This response from HTC seems to suggest that they are indeed still working on it, and as it refers back to previous support responses, it somewhat confirms that HTC's official statement does not rule out the previously promised patch.

"Updating your OS"

A Sprint customer sent us a reply that HTC support told him to take his issues to Sprint. However, he did also state "Hector, we are constantly striving to improve the functionality of our devices. In this case, by resolving the issues mentioned in your email by updating your phones operating system.".

Note that it is unclear what issues would be resolved by updating the operating system. Also note that support responses from HTC continue to be contradicting eachother. It may well be that one end of HTC has completely no idea about what the other end is doing.

"No Imageon, no driver"

Another reader got told by HTC support that the "MSM 7200 chip in these phones do not have the Imageon portion" and "no driver will be released".

Again this fuels the notion that the different HTC departments are not on the same page. It is the first time they actually said the chip itself doesn't have the required parts though. Sad if it's true!

Official response, January 22, 2008

An official response from HTC has been posted in DailyTech's coverage of these issues.

First off, note that this statement has not appeared on the official HTC Press Release page. Either way, here's a copy from what is stated in DailyTech's article.

In response to recent customer complaints about poor video performance on HTC devices based on the latest Qualcomm MSM7xxx chipsets, HTC is providing the following statement.

HTC is committed to delivering a portfolio of devices that offer a wide variety of communication, connectivity and entertainment functionality. HTC does not offer dedicated or optimized multimedia devices and can confirm that its Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices do not use ATI’s Imageon video acceleration hardware.

HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video. These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smart phones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats.

HTC values its customers and the overall online community of mobile device enthusiasts and fans. HTC plans to include video acceleration hardware in future video-centric devices that will enable high-resolution video support.

This is actually a very smart and well thought-out response by HTC. In fact, they actually confirm what we have been saying the whole time:

[HTC's] Qualcomm MSM7xxx-based devices do not use ATI's Imageon video acceleration hardware

They don't actually state that it doesn't have it, that those parts of the hardware are disabled, or any of those things. They merely state that they are not using it. We already knew this, that is what this site is about, after all. At least we have official confirmation of that now.

Update January 24, 2008: No statement is made about any hardware based on ATI Imageon technology either. Nor is there any mention of QTV or Q3Dimension being available.

Now look at this part:

HTC believes the overall value of its devices based on their combination of functionality and connectivity exceeds their ability to play or render high-resolution video.

HTC may well believe that, we obviously don't. There are other devices to be had with those combinations of connectivity and functionality, at far lower prices.

These devices do still provide a rich multimedia experience comparable to that of most smart phones and enable a variety of audio and video file formats.

While this statement in itself might be true, it becomes false when you add "in the same price range" to the above. Even previous HTC models as much as two years old outperform this generation of devices in this area. Also, a "rich multimedia experience" depends a lot on what you consider "rich". Obviously what HTC considers "rich" is more in the area of what we consider to be "very poor".

Did we already mention that this issue is not at all limited to video playback, but concerns all display related functionality? Obviously they did not get that part of the message, which is sad, as the slowness and graphics lag in normal operation is even more frustrating than the video playback issue is - and that affects everybody, not only those wanting to play high resolution video.

HTC values its customers and the overall online community of mobile device enthusiasts and fans.

We would like to point out that giving your "customers and the overall online community of mobile device enthusiasts and fans" the proverbial finger, is not a very effective way to show you value them.

Now let's go into some of the other things the DailyTech article states, just for good measure.

The reason there is no driver for the Imageon video hardware on phones equipped with the MSM7xxx chipsets is that HTC opted to include the chipsets from Qualcomm minus that feature. The confusion for HTC device owners comes from the fact that Qualcomm lists the MSM7500 and MSM7200 chipsets as including the ATI Imageon video acceleration hardware.

However, a quick perusal at HTC of some of the devices listed at HTCClassAction.org reveals that Imageon Video acceleration was never one of the promised features on the devices. HTC simply lists the chipsets that it uses in the phones. However, HTC doesn’t specifically say that it does not include a known feature of the chipsets produced by Qualcomm either.

We would like to ask where they see HTC state that the hardware acceleration features are not physically in the devices. HTC doesn't say that anywhere in their statement, just that they aren't using it - and if the spokesperson did say that, we would like to see it quoted.

Furthermore, it is very unlikely that this feature is not actually in the chip, as generally speaking it would be much cheaper for the manufacturer to just make the same chip in large quantities than making the chips in several batches but slightly different. Another good pointer in that direction is that some of these devices do not have WiFi and/or GPS, but somehow some hackers can turn them on anyway. Ofcourse this doesn't work well because the necessary antennas and the likes are missing, but the part of the hardware inside the chipset is definitely there.

To go even further, for the device to have any display abilities at all while not using the ATi Imageon based hardware, would most likely require additional hardware. That's hardly a cost-effective solution, which makes it even more unlikely that this is the case. So now we are talking about physically disabling a specific part of a specific part of a chipset...

Note that we have already contacted Qualcomm to verify this for the ATi Imageon based hardware, but they did not wish to become involved and issue an official statement.

As for HTC not promising hardware accelerated graphics anywhere, we would like to point out once more that this ATi Imageon based hardware is an integral part of the chipset used, so we believe it is a fair assumption to make that this feature would be available, as it isn't stated anywhere it isn't available. For a mandatory bad car analogy: if someone sold you a car and states this car has a V8 engine, would you not assume the engine comes with eight cilinders and the necessary pistons?

The long and short of the matter for owners of HTC devices using these chipsets is that there will be no fix because HTC chose not to provide Imageon hardware in its devices.

Again, the hardware not being present is neither stated nor likely. Furthermore, HTC support as well as a certain VP of HTC USA have stated repeatedly that a fix is being worked on. We wonder how they plan to fix it if the relevant hardware is not present.

Our verdict of this response: Words of mass distraction!

Official response, January 25, 2008 (posted here Jan. 29)

A new official response from HTC has been posted on Engadget:

HTC does plan to offer software upgrades that will increase feature functionality, over the air wireless speeds, and other enhancements for some of the phones being criticized, but we do not anticipate including any additional support for the video issues cited in customer complaints. It is important for customers to understand that bringing this functionality to market is not a trivial driver update and requires extensive software development and time.

HTC will utilize hardware video acceleration like the ATI Imageon in many upcoming products. Our users have made it clear that they expect our products to offer an improved visual experience, and we have included this feedback into planning and development of future products.

To address lingering questions about HTC's current MSM 7xxx devices, it is important to establish that a chipset like an MSM7xxx is a platform with a vast multitude of features that enable a wide range of devices with varied functionality. It is common that devices built on platforms like Qualcomm's will not enable every feature or function.

In addition to making sure the required hardware is present, unlocking extended capabilities of chipsets like the MSM 7xxx requires in-depth and time consuming software development, complicated licensing negotiations, potential intellectual property negotiations, added licensing fees, and in the case of devices that are sold through operators, the desire of the operator to include the additional functionality. To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become.

Let's look at it piece by piece by again, as we did with their earlier statement.

If HTC never planned to include these things, they should have stated that on their spec sheets, instead of boasting on the first line that they use the MSM7x00 chipset. Not to mention their own September press release (see the Misadvertising page) celebrating the success of the Mogul, 6800, 5800 and TyTN II which also states that these chipsets "also feature rich multimedia capabilities - such as VGA encode/decode, 8 megapixel camera, and 3D graphics". They have taken any chance they can to boast about the MSM7x00 capabilities in these new devices, and find it strange we then expect them to deliver on these?

If you buy a PC from Dell which has a dual core processor in it's specifications - stating only the type, not specifically that it has two cores - and you know this is a dual core processor yourself, would you not expect both of these cores to be available?

We do not merely expect your products to offer an improved visual experience, we expect at the very least that the visual experience is acceptable, which it currently isn't - these devices can't even match their predecessors! In essence what they are saying here is "shut up, buy our next device which will have this fixed". Yeah right, HTC, like we're going to fall for that one again! Let's all spend another $1000 US to buy another device from HTC that will probably not even work remotely near it's specifications and advertising.

First, something being common and something being right and/or correct are two very different things. Getting away with something in the past doesn't mean you can get away with it now. Earlier mentioned points about advertising and boasting apply to this part of the statement as well. Furthermore, we are not asking to have every feature or function enabled. For example, are we asking for TV-out? No we aren't, that would be nonsense as these devices do not seem to have the additional hardware required, and that is not a functionality which is reasonable to expect. Properly working graphics capabilities, however, most definitely are - again see the boasting and advertising.

"Making sure the required hardware is present" comes down to asking one of your engineers if it is, which will likely take less than five minutes.

"In-depth and time consuming software development" - strange, as Qualcomm seems to state in their own chipset specifications that they have drivers and software for the Windows Mobile platform readily available.

"Complicated licensing negotiations, potential intellectual property negotiations" - again, strange, as we've been told it all comes in a single package, no extra licensing necessary. Ofcourse this information could be wrong, but taking everything into account, that seems unlikely to us.

"Added licensing fees" - even if there are, it's doubtful that this would be a lot per device, and as some people had to pay $1000 US for these devices, and HTC's record breaking profit spree, we fail to see how exactly this would be a problem.

To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become.

That is completely the wrong way around and HTC knows it. If you advertise these device as "most powerful" and boast about the chipset's functionalities yourself, even in the same press release as stating these devices in question carry use that chipset, that is certainly implying these functionalities will be available. And that's without even looking at the chipset's own specification.

Furthermore, it is no more than normal to look deeper into stated specifications (these devices have the MSM7x00 chipset) to see what functionalities come with such a specification. It is HTC's responsibility to state in their own specification sheet that functionalities available in the used components will not be available. Funny how the lawyers seem to agree with us there as well.

All in all, this is just a mediocre attempt to shift the blame to the consumer and trying to play the victim.

Our verdict of this response: Excuses, excuses! And very weak ones at that.

New responses from January 29, 2008

"Patch definitely coming"

Even after their second official statement, HTC support keeps telling us a patch is definitely coming soon. Apparently, HTC's R&D department in Taiwan is still working on it.

New responses from February 14, 2008

Breaking News!

"New driver end of March"

A response from Peter Chou himself (CEO of HTC) has surfaced saying they hope to release a driver at the end of March. Examination of the e-mail and its SMTP headers verifies with very high certainty that this e-mail indeed originated at HTC Taiwan. Ofcourse we have also written our own e-mail to Peter Chou to ask for confirmation.

So, this certainly seems to be legit. Ofcoure the question remains wether it's ultimately true - we certainly hope so!.

If you look at this together with the WMExperts Insider Q+A article, this could even mean that HTC is doing completely the opposite of what most people think: instead of leaving us hanging they are actually going the extra mile!

This may be what we've all been hoping for!

"Video acceleration drivers for HTC devices will see the light of the day"

According to Fudzilla, Dr. Florian Seiche, vice president of HTC Europe, stated "Video acceleration drivers for HTC devices will see the light of the day" during the World Mobile Congress interview in Barcelone last week.

Note that it doesn't actually stated for which HTC devices.

In the meantime, Peter Chou has not responded to our own inquiries (yet?).

New responses from February 21, 2008

Breaking News!

"This fix is not a driver for the Imageon hardware"

Both DailyTech and Engadged Mobile report the coming update will not contain drivers, but other software fixes and tweaks.

One thing to note is that the scheduled release date is still March, so it's likely this was 'meant' by Peter Chou as the update. It would be seriously disappointing, but as this seems way more like an official statement than the earlier news we reported, and Peter Chou himself so far has still not answered HTCClassAction.org's (polite) inquiries we'll stick to this as the truth.

It remains the question of course, if many of us will see the touted improvement from this CAB to be released. A lot of people have been taking these devices apart and tweaked them in many ways, new custom ROM's, etc. A lot of these already create significant improvements over the original software these devices came with, so the big question here is, will we actually notice anything from this patch? We think it would not be unreasonable to expect that this cab-based fix will be something like enabling full codec and QTV support for Windows Media Player (speculation). While this would be a good thing, ofcourse, it's too little too late, it's nothing CorePlayer can't do, after all.

Before going further, let's quote the statement posted on DailyTech. It's the usual "oh my god we didn't know people actually expected what we implied we would deliver and therefore we aren't to blame" nonsense we have all come to expect from HTC by now, but here it is anyway:

HTC DOES plan to offer software upgrades that will increase feature functionality, over the air wireless speeds and other enhancements for some of the phones being criticized, but we do not anticipate including any additional support for the video acceleration issues cited in customer complaints. It is important for customers to understand that bringing this functionality to market is not a trivial driver update and requires extensive software development and time.

Classic bait-and-switch going on here. There are so many things wrong with this statement we can hardly find a place to begin. Of course we'll recap it here with our thoughts on various points.

It is important for customers to understand that bringing this functionality to market is not a trivial driver update and requires extensive software development and time.

Yes, in general, developing drivers does take a lot of extensive software development and time. Why is this important to understand for customers? It isn't, it's completely irrelevant. Customers didn't imply functionalities, HTC did, and they conveniently rode the MSM7x00 chipset hype without ever saying anything about these features not being included. What it takes to get it done is HTC's business, not the customers. Seriously, these devices go for around $700, millions have been sold, and HTC is crying about spending a few months for a few developers (or paying Qualcomm or whoever else) to get it done? That's like Bill Gates complaining Windows didn't make him enough money.

Yes it's very clear, you want us all to shell out more cash and buy your NEXT product, which will offer all the features this product should have. As tempting as that seems, somehow we expect these devices will not quite be what we expect from them either. Furthermore, and it gets tiring to state this over and over again, we're not even so much looking for an "improved visual experience", as one that can at least match devices 3 years older. Even that would be a significant improvement and make many users, if not happy, at least somewhat content - but probably still holding a grudge against HTC.

Again, we are not asking for features that are unreasonable to expect. Do we expect HTC to implement things like the TV-out functionality possible with the MSM7x00 chipsets? We do not, as this would require additional hardware and modifications to existing devices. That not all features of a chipset are fully implemented is to be expected. However, basic system functionality like hardware accelerated graphics capabilities when they are available is completely reasonable to expect, expecially as nothing has been stated to this not being available in neither specs nor reviews and HTC has intentionally implied that these features would be available in their own press releases. We like to call this "maximizing profits by repeatedly screwing over your customer base".

Again with this unbelievable statement (it has more or less been part of previous statements). We are talking about base functionality that is reasonable to expect from a device sporting a chipset that supports it. Especially if mentioned in HTC's own press releases and the device is priced like an average laptop. Furthermore, the official specifications did not specify details on any of these things, so it is no more than to be expected that potential buyers research the hardware to see what is offered. Of course, HTC would rather have us believe that in general people about to spend large amounts of money do not look into what they are buying, and that therefore nothing of this is their fault.

There's really not much more to say about this whole issue that hasn't been said already. HTC customers are not satisfied, HTC simply doesn't care. Whatever happened to the customer being king?

Hope for the future? We guess it's clear now that HTC will do nothing worth mentioning about the current issues. However, the future XPeria product is rumored to run on the MSM7200A chipset and will have the complete driver set. If nothing else, hopefully the big brains at XDA-Developers, PPCGeeks, MoDaCo and other online communities will be able to port them to the current set of MSM7x00 devices. As it probably won't be released before the second half of 2008 it's still way off, though.

HTCClassAction.org